Help! Need assistance rigging 1967 Mirror

  • stretchey
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04 Jun 2010 18:49 #20690 by stretchey
Hello I have recently acquired a 1967 Gaff-rigged Mirror which has been part-restored by its previous
owner.
Unfortunately it has been stripped of all its fittings and I need to put it all back together again.
I have a basic idea of how to rig and have received some useful advice from from the Association.
However I could really do with speaking directly to someone living near me and perhaps having a look
at their own boat
I live near Littlehampton, West Sussex.
Is there anyone living within an hour or so's drive of me who has a traditionally rigged Mirror who would be
willing for me to have a gander and fire a few questions at them.
Please help if you can.

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  • jen11755
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09 Jun 2010 19:50 #20697 by jen11755
Replied by jen11755 on topic Help! Need assistance rigging 1967 Mirror
Hi,
Don't know if you have had any joy, but I have a 1963 Mark 1 which I can more than gladly send you some deck fitting photo's if you drop me your e mail. Unfortunately I live in land locked Birmingham so popping around could prove a tad difficult.
Regards John

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  • fusilier
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11 Jun 2010 21:34 - 16 Jun 2010 10:07 #20701 by fusilier
Replied by fusilier on topic Help! Need assistance rigging 1967 Mirror
im in a similar position. ive recently bought an old mirror sail number beginning 43011 but it seems to lack a number of fittings. as i am new to this style of boat i dont know what exactly is missing. i would appreciate lots of photos showing all the fittings on a similar aged boat.

i have aquired a copy of The Mirror Book by Peter Aitkin and Tim davison which i'd thought would answer my questions but they only show close ups of ultra modern boats that bear very little relation to my old dinosaur. Wish i'd known before i wasted my money :x

so could anyone furnish me with some photos that could help me as i refit my boat?
Last edit: 16 Jun 2010 10:07 by .

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  • jen11755
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12 Jun 2010 08:44 #20703 by jen11755
Replied by jen11755 on topic Help! Need assistance rigging 1967 Mirror
Here goes from a non technical terminology perspective, it may help if you get your full sail number and find a similar age hull.
For starters my Mark 1 (sail 430) doesn't have the storage compartment in the hull below the mast behind the forward buoyancy chamber, which I'm told rightly or wrongly means its a Mark 1. That aside I assume the majority of the deck fittings should be common. If I list them verbally we can discuss any required photo's after if needs be.
Main shrouds - forward centre fixing is a square base with single cast loop, side mountings I believe were the same but mine have been changed to the verticalish "U" channel with 11 positions for a 4.5mm dia pin. My existing shrouds have a length of rope to attach all three, but I've ordered some shroud extensions for the rear two so I can attach and hoist the mast on my own. There are two of the simple loop bases (as centre front) positioned further forward which are I assume for the forward of the twp mast positions (no jib) which I've never used. Mast position is fixed by a circular wooden boss on hull, corresponding circular recess in base of mast.
Jib control rope (see what I mean about the terminology) are wooden cresent shape pieces either side, which could actually be meant as hull lifting handles or both. I've just added two cleats to the centre seat so I can lock off the jib when sailing single handed, likewise not sure what others do.
Rowlocks are integral in hull so enough said.
Main is effectively two holes in the rear thwart, rope knotted eithre side to anchor, through boom, down to pulley attached to other hull hole by more rope.
I believe the tiller two fixings haven't changed.
Hope this may help. Regards John

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  • fusilier
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12 Jun 2010 11:38 #20705 by fusilier
Replied by fusilier on topic Help! Need assistance rigging 1967 Mirror
apologies my sail number is 43011 (1974) i believe.

mine has the storage lockers under the mast.

i bought jamming cleats for the jib sheets before i even attempted to sail mine thinking they would do the job. however they wouldnt free up when i gybed or tacked which was entertaining when i was on my own. i eventually took the sheets out and threaded them through the carry handles but this meant i had to hold them taught all the time. hard work on your own. i intend buying camcleats instead but am unsure where is best to mount them. Ive decided not to buy anything else until ive picked a few brains on here first :D

ok heres where i am unsure of the correct rigging on my Mirror.

the wooden boom- 1) appears to be no means of stretching the sail out along it and tying it off. empty screw holes are on the port side of boom.
2) kicking strap- reaches a pulley beneath mast but then what? no means of tying it off and not enough rope to reach anywhere



however even with all the little problems the boat sails well and ive already had her out for a few days. shes sound no leaks and the outer hull just needs to be be cleaned off and repainted properly. the varnish inside looks tatty and discoloured. the previous owner put a few handfuls of beach sand in regular varnish to create a non slip surface and as a result much of it just looks dirty. tiller extension is a royal pain in the butt as it cant be flipped and hasnt got a omni-directional joint(?) sails are ok but beginning to sag a little. not a problem for a while as i dont intend racing her....at least for a while :)

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  • bobt
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12 Jun 2010 19:39 #20706 by bobt
Fussilier

The handles as you call them were originally designed as fairleads for the jib. Jammers were not thought a requirement in the sixties/seventies. Modern bull nose type steel lined plastic fairleads and jamming cleats have progrsivly moved over the years starting on top of the original wooden one, then onto the side tanks and now on to the thwart. The position of these very much depends on the age of the sail as the cut of the sail has altered along with the position of the faileads to try and maximise performance. looking at the rig of 43 there seams to be several bits missing. The sail should lace down the mast to hold it about even to how it leaves the gaff with the gaff hauled tight against the mast and then fastened off, another pice of string is then fastened from the sail tack(bottom front eye of sail)around the mast and fastened back to the tack . A down haul is required from the tack of the main through an eye or a block close as possible to the goose neck and then led to a jamming cleat on the boom. This could be what your mentioned cleat is for, if it is pointing the correct way. If it jams a rope the opposit way it has been fitted to accomodate an clew outhaul.(method of stretching sail along boom). Both these sail adjustments are not nessesary whilst learning to sail the Mirror but are required to tune the sail,and to depower the sail if it gets a bit breezy whilst out.The out haul if fitted,and a strop if not should leave the foo of the sail without a crease along its length and about a fist distance fron the centre point of the boom.Also tie a strop from the clew around the boom to hold the outer end down. The kicker on the other hand is a nessecity. It normally(in its simplist form) runs from the mast to a block fitted to an eye on the forward bulkheadand back up to a block incorperating a horn type jam cleat giving 2to1 purchase. this can now be increased considerably to I think 6to1 but I sugest you think of the extra stress that could be put on the boat if you go to max, unless being sailed by a small child. I hope this is all of some use to you, enjoy sailing your Mirror .


Bob.T (single handers rep)

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15 Jun 2010 18:36 #20711 by Peter Robinson
Hi, If you would like to give me a ring on 01943 864819 I can talk you through the points you have made on the picture

Regards Peter Lulham-Robinson UK Mirror Class Sec

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  • fusilier
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16 Jun 2010 18:02 #20712 by fusilier
Replied by fusilier on topic Help! Need assistance rigging 1967 Mirror
thanks Bob.T for your advice. it has cleared up a lot of my questions and given me clues as to rectifying most of the others.

just one point i need clarification on is concerning the kicker. i am a bit of a dummy and need a photo to go from. could you find one for me preferably a close up?

i'm faced by a bit of a quandry. my old 43 is very scruffy but seaworthy and i have once again been bitten by the sailing bug. Now do i take her off the water for up to 6 weeks, or possibly longer, to clean her up or should i accept she looks awful but enjoy the summer with her at every opportunity. got all winter to give her a makeover. decisions decisions :?


Peter whens a good time for me to call you?


My first outing. hardly a breath of wind. typical. :roll:

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  • dsmithers
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17 Jun 2010 12:13 #20713 by dsmithers
Replied by dsmithers on topic Help! Need assistance rigging 1967 Mirror
On my Mirror there's a block on the top of the boom about 3' from the gooseneck that stops the kicker pulling in - it looks as though you have a hole drilled in the boom to do this.

There should be an eye at the bottom of the panel unerneath the mast to attach the other end of the kicker to. Generally there will be a block with a cleat down there.

As far as renovation goes - put it off if you can as it stops too much sailing.
I find this difficult as I don't have anywhere indoors to work on a boat so good weather is essential for good woodwork.

dan

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  • fusilier
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23 Jun 2010 19:10 #20714 by fusilier
Replied by fusilier on topic Help! Need assistance rigging 1967 Mirror
enjoying myself immensely with my old mirror. have now been on a few lakes and reservoirs and have ventured out on the sea. The Anglesey coast is absolutely fantastic and i had a whale of a time for 3 days last week.

however today i went to Knott End near fleetwood and gave my brother in law the helm so to speak. during a particularly strong gust he panicked and hauled in when he should have relaxed the main sheet. we went over and ended up very wet.

i remembered someone on here mentioning how difficult it can be getting back on board and suggesting a stirrup type arrangement to get a boost. this worked very well indeed. so thanks guys. well worth coming to this forum for titbits like that.

now when we came to right the boat we managed to snap the centre board when we put weight on it. Now did i have a particularly weak centre board or do you recommend another way of righting the boat after capsize? we managed to right her anyway and i was able to sail us back safely so no harm done. There doesnt seem to be any signs of rot or degradation on the broken centre board. i am already in the process of making a replacement but am wondering if using the same grade of ply might not be a good idea.

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  • dsmithers
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24 Jun 2010 12:39 #20716 by dsmithers
Replied by dsmithers on topic Help! Need assistance rigging 1967 Mirror
In my Mirror, I used to follow the RYA technique.

Assuming that you're in the water already.

One person throws upper jib sheet over (make sure that the lower one isn't cleated first) and then lies inside capsized hull next to the centreboard case.

The other person swims round to the underside and catches the jib sheet and then holding onto the jibsheet walks up the outside of the hull.

The first person gets scooped up as the boat rights so there is someone onboard immediately.

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  • fusilier
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24 Jun 2010 13:41 #20718 by fusilier
Replied by fusilier on topic Help! Need assistance rigging 1967 Mirror

dsmithers wrote: In my Mirror, I used to follow the RYA technique.

Assuming that you're in the water already.

One person throws upper jib sheet over (make sure that the lower one isn't cleated first) and then lies inside capsized hull next to the centreboard case.

The other person swims round to the underside and catches the jib sheet and then holding onto the jibsheet walks up the outside of the hull.

The first person gets scooped up as the boat rights so there is someone onboard immediately.


yes thats basically what we did.the only problem was the boat was threatening to turn turtle so not fancying being stuck underneath her so ,and after ensuring the bottom jib sheet was free i joined my colleague on his side of the hull and helped by adding my weight to the jibsheet.. by this time he had already broken the centre board.

i now know my colleague had put all his weight on the very end of the centre board. he only mentioned this when we were talking about it later. i think this will have damaged most centre boards

so i now think it wasnt so much the centre board that was at fault but our technique in righting the boat.

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  • bobt
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24 Jun 2010 20:00 #20722 by bobt
I've also managed the broken centre board during righting trick. The centre board was nearly new at the time so I couldn't blame the wood just bad technique. I've since found that there is no need to but your weight onto the end of the centre board. Just climb onto the board close up to the hull, grab hold of the jib sheet or I tend to use the gunwhale, and lean back the boat will slowly at first right it's self and as you should be pointing into wind before starting the wind gets under the sail and does most of the work for you. By the way the Mirror does turn turtle very easily,especially if rigged with the new one piece mast. But one 10 1/2 stone single hander can still get back up fairly easily.

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  • fusilier
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05 Aug 2010 23:14 #20781 by fusilier
Replied by fusilier on topic Help! Need assistance rigging 1967 Mirror
centre board all fixed and i even made a spare. ive also made a spare rudder and mount just in case.

ive been on the water quite a few times over the last few weeks and have found my dream spot. its called Traeth Bychan near Bennlech on Anglesey.It has a very friendly sailing club and excellent launching facilities. £5 pays for 12 hours parking for car and trailer and there are no launch fees. as im fast becoming a regular i am considering joining this club.

the views are stunning and although the beach is a little small the kids love it.

im cramming in as much sailing as i can this summer but im already buying in stocks of paint and resin for when i refurbish my mirror in the autumn

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